Alcohol vs weed

[Bruno]

Something I've been wondering about recently. I only know alcohol but in recently years the attitude towards weed has changed in Belgium and i take it in the usa as well.

A friend of mine is currently in hospital because he pancreas was shutting down and her gall bladder is so bad ot may need to go. My daughter's friend's boyfriend recently hid his father's car keys because he was wasted and wanted to drive. He demolished the living room and assorted furniture looking for them. Imagine the trauma and fear of the kid. social workers i know tell me that alcohol is part of the majority of situations involving violence.

And yet alcohol is still a very firm part of our culture and abuse is often shrugged at as harmless.

Contrast that with weed. I know a couple of people who are occasional smokers, and my kids know several people who use is daily. Not to say that everything in their lives is going great but if they smoke (too much) they zone out but something like weed induced domestic violence is just not a thing, nor is multiple organ failure like my friend.

Just looking at the effects on society and the victims it seems counter intuitive that our society severely punishes / discourages one while embedding the other in all social occasions and celebrations.

Thoughts?

I'm not working up to any particular point it's just something bouncing around in my skull since my friend told me her organs started dying from abuse.

Thankfully she seems to have turned around just in time and understands the severity.

 

[Shawn]

Weed seems to do much less damage to the body than alcohol. I know a few that use and they definitely don't get aggressive like a lot I have seen on alcohol.
Probably my biggest gripe with it (other than I am allergic to it and can't stand the smell) is that as a country we have spent who knows how many trillions of dollars fighting the "gateway drug" to all of a sudden be praising it as a miracle drug.
New York state has banned flavored vape juice because it "attracts children". The only thing harmful in vape juice is the nicotine.
But on the other hand they can sell weed with all kinds of flavors, weed made into baked goods like Brownies and cakes, and into all kinds of candies, gummies, and chocolate bars but that's perfectly fine...
Mind you, you still have to show ID in any vape shop just like you do at a weed shop, so where is the difference?

Ok.... actually my BIGGEST problem with it is that vape juice is illegal to sell off the reservations but weed is not...

 

[verndahl]

Here's a viewpoint from a total non substance user (other than caffein). I don't think we need another potentially harmful (no matter how small) substance in any society. Despite what the industry says there are studies that show the effects of the higher amounts of THC causing psychoses and dependency especially among young users. Don't think it will end up being a good thing. If only all people could be responsible with whatever substance they choose to use. FWIW

 

[Bruno]

I think @Shawn has a good point about the unreasonable amount of money that has been invested in the 'war on drugs' concerning a gateway drug when it seems that the premise of a gateway drug is probably inaccurate.

The damage done by war on weed has cost society a lot in terms of broken families and wasted lives.

Fwiw in Belgium it is more or less condoned for personal use. In the generation of my kids, it's more or less socially acceptable and there doesn't seem to be any gateway effect at all. The biggest factor i see there is that youth still consider hard drugs and pills a nono and their use is more correlated with hard partying / raves etc.

I remember a comment by a YouTube guy 'mike the cop'. He said in 10+ years of policing he lost count of the number of domestic calls where one of the parents got drunk and decided to beat up their family. It was multiple every weekend. And in all his years there hadn't been a single domestic intervention for a weed smoker. People who smoke tend to mellow out and that's it.

Btw i not arguing one way or another i'm just wondering that it's weird that our society demonizes weed while almost pushing alcohol, when alcohol seems to be far more harmful.

 

[Bruno]

Speaking about vapes, i am definitely not a fan of cigarette smoke but that's not half as revolting as the smell of popcorn vape

 

[cangooner]

The entire war on drugs has been a disaster. Like Vern my drug of choice is caffeine and it is the only "recreational" drug I ingest regularly. I enjoy a good beer, whisky, or glass of wine from time to time, but really don't drink much at all these days. I think I got that out of my system as a student/grad student. I have very occasionally smoked weed or more recently taken TCH/CBD in gummy form to help with anxiety and other mental health issues stemming from my old job, but have never tried and have never had any desire to try anything stronger. So I am not at all coming at this from a 'drugs are great!!' point of view. All that having been said...

• the number of lives ruined for simple possession of drugs is astonishing, as is the amount of resources taken up by this broken enforcement model
• I too have never seen anyone get violent and abusive from smoking weed (although I too have seen studies to the effect that in excess it can be damaging to young, I think under-25?, developing brains)
• the whole gateway drug concept is broken. I must know dozens of people who have smoked weed or eaten edibles etc., with absolutely no desire to get into harder drugs. If someone is going to end up smoking meth, they are going to end up smoking meth. Whether or not weed is available as a step is not the deciding factor.

Popcorn vape??? That sounds awful!

 

[Shawn]

I used to smoke pipes. Did for years. Then I got on a seismic drilling crew and got hooked on cigarettes. Nasty things. I got a vape to try to quit the cigarettes and have been enjoying that for the last 10 years or so. I could get the juice with no nicotine but it actually tastes different, so I stick with the lowest nicotine level I can get.
I have seen and tasted a lot of flavors, but I have never seen a popcorn flavor. Nor do I want to ever try one. My blue raspberry that I go to now is just fine.

But I agree. Discretion and self regulation with anything is a key, and so many people do not have that.
Even as a "smoker", I can't stand when people have no respect for others blowing smoke towards them and throwing cigarette butt's all over. I try and stand away from other smokers even so I'm not blowing "smoke" at them.
Unfortunately, respect is about as scarce as common sense these days.

 

[32t]

I know where I can get weed infused vodka.......

How does that fit in here?

They have legalized weed here in mn but have yet to make the rules proper.

 

[Bruno]

In Belgium and the Netherlands it has been partially decriminalized but it's stupid. Yiu can have a small amount for personal use but you can't legally sell it or produce it.

In the Netherlands there are shops that can sell it but they cannot legally buy it because it's still illegal to produce or traffic. It's all very murky.

 

[32t]

In Belgium and the Netherlands it has been partially decriminalized but it's stupid. Yiu can have a small amount for personal use but you can't legally sell it or produce it.

In the Netherlands there are shops that can sell it but they cannot legally buy it because it's still illegal to produce or traffic. It's all very murky.

Sounds much like here. The big difference that I can see is then we have the federal government at the top. To the feds it is still illegal. Most of my freinds work with a federal liscense so they can't afford to break the fed rules.

An intersting one here is that the banks are controled by the feds. You can't do anything "illegal" with the banks handling your money. Therefore all the weed is bought and sold with cash.

 

[Bruno]

Makes you wonder how they run their bookkeeping. In Belgium all business activities have to be done electronically. Cash is only allowed for private citizens so they could run a cash customer front but would still have to bringbit to the bank and do all business activities electronically.

Incidentally there is also a limit to cash use as part of our money laundering regulations. The maximum amount of cash you are allowed for any transaction is a couple of thousands. There is no legal way to buy a new car or a house or whatever in cash.

 

[32t]

Could the price be a Kruggerand per Kilo?

 

[Bruno]

In Belgium there maximum of any cash transaction is 3000 Euro. In the Netherlands it's even less. Google tells me in Belgium a kilo of weed is 4611 so that would not fly. Aside from the fact that buying with the intent to distribute is also illegal of course, as is trafficking large volumes.


I am not an expert but my guess would be adding Krugerrands into the mix is not making things better

 

[32t]

A kilo is a big amount.

how do you handle small amounts betwen friends?

 

[Bruno]

2 main ways. The first is a simple bank transfer. Literally everyone in Belgium has a bank account. Employers have to pay by bank transfer, tax refunds are sent via direct transfer, fines and taxes are bank transfer, etc. Not everyone can get credit or is allowed to overdraw, but everyone who lives can have a bank account. So it is very common for people to send each other money that way. Especially amounts that are a bit larger like 50 or 100 Euros, but just as easily 2 Euros.

But we also have mobile apps. For example, if I pay for dinner and we split the bill 3 ways, I can use my mobile app to create a digital money request. I can then either send the transfer link to them via whatsapp where their mobile app can pick it up and approve, or I can create a QR code on my screen and their mobile app can scan it. The latter is also very common i fast food shops, icecream stands etc. Covid has drastically accelerated this type of digital payment.

Using cash is getting rarer. I still have a big jar where I occasionally save a 50 note or extra 2 euro pieces I may be carrying, and after a year or 2 I'll go to the whisky shop and spend it But ever since Covid it has become very rare to pay cash. It's still a thing with senior citizens though.

 

[RezDog]

I haven’t been around much for a while. It’s a long story, I’ll spare you the details.
I was a paramedic for a number of years. I’ve never attended to a call where weed was a factor, alcohol on the other hand, I have seen massive destruction and trauma.
All the young people send money by email or text message. I still keep some cash on hand at all times. In part because all of the card or electronic methods require internet, and ours is very unreliable. Also it’s easier for me to watch bills leave my wallet than to monitor my accounts. There is still a lot of cash transactions in my area. Legally all bank deposits of over $10K cash are considered suspicious and automatically flagged. I know in the IS a lot of people use an account from an app that you load from your bank and then can transfer it between people. I know little other than it exists.

 

[Bruno]

Good to see you back!
Yeah it's not so much that i am pro weed but more the effort going into fighting it compared to alcohol.

Reminds me of Howard telling me he was standing in a room full of people working with gringers in a haze of metal dustbon all sides while forges were roaring and someone gave him grief about a cigarette stub in his mouth.